Spiritual Poems:

[ronn55]

How do you eliminate a power
Far greater than you could ever conceive
That you’d strategically place wolves set to devour
Trying to thwart a purpose destined to be achieved

What was an abomination is now a hate crime
The created has no power over the Creator
Yet no one knows the hour or the exact time
But His purpose will be fulfilled sooner or later

How can you be excused from His wrath
By imposing your sins in the guise of human rights
What a price you’re paying for walking the wrong path
Yet you indulge yourself in whatever your heart delights

Whoa to you politicians and lawyers whose purpose is to ruse
By writing statues placing a burden on a people God set free
Your words of art are only designed to confuse
Where mans freedom comes with an extraordinarily high fee

In a world where cash is considered king
Where people serve it at their soul’s expense
The media promotes all the baubles and bling
Yet in court most men can’t even afford their own defense

No more prayer in the schools
No longer one nation under God
Preaching so called gospels designed by fools
Hard core Christians put in front of firing squads

Terrorism is the new game in town
Where governments give it subjects a false sense of security
The deception of it all is so profound
Until over ninety percent of God’s people wander off into obscurity

Now just think on this if you will
About the power your soul is cherishing
The reason why Hell will have its fill
Because the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing

[MsJacquiiC]

I must say that I am in complete, total disagree with certain politics of this poem.

The Following Text Is Quoted:

Originally Posted by ronn55

What was an abomination is now a hate crime...

How can you be excused from His wrath
By imposing your sins in the guise of human rights

You didn't speak the word "homosexuality" - but it's not too difficult to piece together what you are speaking on. For me personally - this ruined the poem for me. A lot of time - poetry and politics don't mix well IMO - this is one of those times.

At anyrate - If you are to believe scripture = all are sinners; there is only one sin that's said to be unpardonable: blasphemy against the holy spirit.

From Matthew 12:31-32

"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

After careful consideration of this passage = I'm lead to believe that a sin is a sin is a sin, with the exception of blasphemy against the holy spirit. And in this vein - I will suggest that you might concentrate on bettering your own life, as opposed to singling out a group of people, telling them they are going to hell for their sin.

If we are reading the same scripture, drawing the same logical conclusion, there is only one sin greater than all others. All other sins might be said to be equal.

Using your frame of reference and drawing on scripture... If the homosexual is going to hell for sexual deviancy blablabla, then so shall you join them in hell for that little white lie you told the other day....unless you are perfect and don't tell little white lies that is

Anyway = just food for thought. I'll get off my soapbox now

[Target Practice]

This doesn't really connect with me in any real sense. It may be because I'm not an especially spiritual or religious person.
From a strictly linguistic perspective, I didn't really feel any great flow from the piece, lines such as:

The Following Text Is Quoted:

Until over ninety percent of God’s people wander off into obscurity

Don't seem to fit in with the rest of the piece and feel jarring and out of place when I read them.

On the positive side of things, you certainly speak with great passion on the subject (even if I disagree hugely with some of the views expressed by the narrator in the piece), and it shines through in your writing, making it compelling reading.

[ronn55]

Boy do I appreciate this review, you found the passion in the writing which is fanyastic, yet I'm forever learning. Tell me how would you change it or what would you like to see in the piece

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

It's easy to point out scripture but do you believe what you read or do you find yourself guilty. Thus and so since blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable the consistent practice of a sin God finds abhorent will not be forgiven as well. Yes God is love but He to have a timetable to right all the wrongs. I'm to love the sinner but hate the sin and since you are a living breathing human I do so love you and if you were practicing I hate the act. Enough of my soapbox for now. I'm not condeming a people just the act. Can you separate the two

[MsJacquiiC]

The Following Text Is Quoted:

Originally Posted by ronn55

It's easy to point out scripture but do you believe what you read or do you find yourself guilty. Thus and so since blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable the consistent practice of a sin God finds abhorent will not be forgiven as well. Yes God is love but He to have a timetable to right all the wrongs. I'm to love the sinner but hate the sin and since you are a living breathing human I do so love you and if you were practicing I hate the act. Enough of my soapbox for now. I'm not condeming a people just the act. Can you separate the two

But who put you in charge? Who gave you the right to condemn anybody or anything?

And what is a person, other than his beliefs, his hopes & dreams and his acts? Ever hear the ethical standard of "Judge a person by the content of his/her character" -- I think this is more a REAL Christian concept than the old fire and brimstone "God hates your sin - you're going to hell" talk. That kind of talk is divisive and goes against most EVERYTHING the Christian Messiah is said to have taught.

In fact - the teachings of Jesus compels us to love our fellow humanity, not condemn our brethren as if we are God with judge's gavel in hand. And if we are to believe in an omnipotent God = Trust me when I say He does not need YOU to judge His creation on His behalf. Unless you are Jesus that is

Can I separate a person from his acts as if I am some divine Houdini that God Himself has designed to sit in judgement of humanity? I would certainly hope not. A person is his acts. And by condemning a person's acts - you act as judge, jury and executioner. And that is called a pseudo-Christian behavior when you consider the old tenet of Judge not, less ye be judged:

The Following Text Is Quoted:

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

It's one thing to be a perfect man who can handpicks 'sins' in which to judge people by, but quite another when you are imperfect and pointing your imperfect finger at others' sin when you too have fallen short of the glory of God. That's called hypocrisy.

Anyway - as for the poem itself. It really needs an extensive editing process. Your intent is quite clear (from the perspective of a Hardcore Christian) -- I too see the passion - passion makes for good poetry actually.

If I were in charge of the rewrite - I would use 6 stanzas - drop the stanza about terrorism, as that just came out of nowhere and makes for a clunky transition to your last stanza, which should be a summation of sorts.

IDK... Like I said before - the bias politics here killed it for me. I look forward to reading some of your poetry where you give God the glory for being a just, caring and loving overseer 'cause bigotry disguised as enlightened religious fodder is not doing it for me at all.

[ronn55]

This is a discussion I'll no longer cater to because you have a right to your opinion and so do I but for the sake of the reason for being here I will resign from posting anything damning and judgmental although we serve a wrathful God whose patient with us. He did say let the wheat and tare grow together. Maybe I was a bit harsh but I also see by expressing this line of thinking would only continue into something mush worse and I'm not about that. But for God I will lay down my life if I'm called to do as such. So I will for the sake of the art of poetry APOLOGIZE

[MsJacquiiC]

The Following Text Is Quoted:

Originally Posted by ronn55

This is a discussion I'll no longer cater to because you have a right to your opinion and so do I but for the sake of the reason for being here I will resign from posting anything damning and judgmental although we serve a wrathful God whose patient with us. He did say let the wheat and tare grow together. Maybe I was a bit harsh but I also see by expressing this line of thinking would only continue into something mush worse and I'm not about that. But for God I will lay down my life if I'm called to do as such. So I will for the sake of the art of poetry APOLOGIZE

No apology necessary. It should be expected that when such a passionate piece is shared here at JPiC that passionate responses are both demanded and encouraged.

We have a very lenient censorship policy here - so when literary topics which have the capacity to inspire debate are posted ==> We feel free to discuss as long as we show mutual respect for each other as people.

Me? I was merely commenting one aspect of your piece which I personally found offensive & patronizing. I hope my tone was not too harsh, but you've been a member of JPiC long enough to know that I'm neither in the business of curbing my tone, nor my tongue LOL - Anyway - will be interesting to see if others chime in. You certainly opened the door wide open for debate didn't ya

[ronn55]

The Word of God is divisive it divides and conquers that's why He said, 'Come out from among them and be seperate and I'll receive you'. Whenever God talks about sin He's not talking about a people He's talking about the act itself. He died for us all white, black, heterosexual, homosexual, lesbian you name it but we choose to live our own way, our own beliefs The bible says, 'there is a way that seems right to a man but it ends in death. Now you've sent me to hell right along with the ones you say I've judged and condemned. What type of person should I perceive you to be a person with an opinion or one who's going to hell, better yet belong there. Choose ye this day whom you will serve

[MsJacquiiC]

You share a piece, which is full of condemnation. A piece filled with what I personally view as an unashamed and pointed bigotry laced with animosity. A piece in which you have pre-judged people, without even as much as considering the content of their character, telling them to get right with God or burn in hell.... As if YOU personally, ronn55, have been ordained by God Himself to mete out anybody's judgement.

I always find it bigheaded of these so-called Hardcore Christians when they find it fitting to sit in their glass houses throwing stones of overzealous judgement. It becomes hypocrisy and almost nonsensical when they handpick "sins" in which to smack their brothers upside the head with, yet seemingly ignore their own. Do you eat pork?

As for my posts in this thread, I've merely pointed out to you that a sin is a sin is a sin. You apparently do not agree?

It's funny you say the word of God is divisive. If you mean the Holy Bible is divisive ==> Indeed it is. It's a book of parables, witticisms, proverbs and advice written from the perspectives of great men. Those great men also loaded it with contradictions. FYI - a quick google search of Biblical Contradictions brought up some 234,000 results. I recommend you enlighten yourself with some of the various info you'll find here for example and here too.

I submit that THE WORD OF GOD IS DIVINE! I see 'divine' as a much better concept than the divide and conquer one you mentioned. Don't you? And if we are to believe the bible - then we must also believe in Revelations and possible transcendence to paradise. So don't get me wrong - the points you've made have not been lost on me.

Likewise - I hope the points I've made have not been lost on you.

And truly - what I've suggested here is that though you may see your intentions as noble, it would be more noble if instead of dissecting the divisive word of God to use against people - you might practice the tenets set forth by your Christian Messiah. He was not a divisive man. He was not a RELIGIOUS man. If were are to believe scripture - We know the Christian Messiah as a spiritual man who advised his followers against throwing stones

Regarding your piece - if your intentions were to scare someone into the divisive embrace of the Christianity you practice ==> you've failed....in this readers opinion anyway.

The Following Text Is Quoted:

Originally Posted by ronn55

What type of person should I perceive you to be a person with an opinion or one who's going to hell, better yet belong there. Choose ye this day whom you will serve

Seriously? I'll respond to that with this: If the gates of heaven are lined with bigots standing in judgement of each other because they are in horrible fear of God's divisive wrath... Thanks for the invitation - but I'll pass!

Anyway - yay free speech AND 3 cheers for our non-censorship policy. I'm aware of quite a few forums out there that would not allow posts like your poem Ron. Your post would be viewed as hate mongering and would have been deleted right away.

I serve freedom by the way. Lady freedom and I are lesbian lovers. Bad joke

[stardust]

The Following Text Is Quoted:

Originally Posted by ronn55

How do you eliminate a power
Far greater than you could ever conceive
That you’d strategically place wolves set to devour
Trying to thwart a purpose destined to be achieved

What was an abomination is now a hate crime
The created has no power over the Creator
Yet no one knows the hour or the exact time
But His purpose will be fulfilled sooner or later

How can you be excused from His wrath
By imposing your sins in the guise of human rights
What a price you’re paying for walking the wrong path
Yet you indulge yourself in whatever your heart delights

Whoa to you politicians and lawyers whose purpose is to ruse
By writing statues placing a burden on a people God set free
Your words of art are only designed to confuse
Where mans freedom comes with an extraordinarily high fee

In a world where cash is considered king
Where people serve it at their soul’s expense
The media promotes all the baubles and bling
Yet in court most men can’t even afford their own defense

No more prayer in the schools
No longer one nation under God
Preaching so called gospels designed by fools
Hard core Christians put in front of firing squads

Terrorism is the new game in town
Where governments give it subjects a false sense of security
The deception of it all is so profound
Until over ninety percent of God’s people wander off into obscurity

Now just think on this if you will
About the power your soul is cherishing
The reason why Hell will have its fill
Because the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing

HELLO RON,

OH!! WOOOWWWW!!!! YOUR POEM IS AN EXTRAORDINARY PIECE OF PHILOSOPHY,
A MASTER PIECE OF WISDOM. EVERY LINE MAKES SENSE. YOUR VERSES ARE
OUTSTANDING, RON, FOOD FOR THOUGHTS AND TRUE THOUGHT PROVOKING.
I LIKE THE LINE: "THE CREATED HAS NO POWER OVER THE CREATOR..."
I ALSO LIKE THE LINE: "IN A WORLD WHERE CASH IS CONSIDERED KING,
WHERE PEOPLE SERVE IT AT THEIR SOULS EXPENSE..."
RON, IT IS TRUE, SWEETHEART.
THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR POETRY AND YOUR WISDOM WITH US!!
GOD LOVES YOU, SO DO WE!!
ALL THE BEST,
STARRY.